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...and TVJr still chose PSU over Wisconsin.
no that would be a lateral move, even though there will be an opening in about 3 years. guessing NFL is in his future, but I have absolutely nothing to base it on. I mean nothing at all. Thanks for #51 it was hall of fame material.
I'm afraid not...it looks like we got "vaccinated" again...
One slight addendum to the posts:
The people accused..i stress accused...haven't been to trial yet. One of the charges is conspiracy or child endangerment or something along them lines.
No one has been found guilty of a cover-up to date.
I do wonder what the ncaa will do if all 3 are found not guilty of said conspiracy. Te sanctions themselves are based on a cover-up which is sourced by louis freeh who isnt exact rock solid in terms of evidentary investigations.
Will be very interesting if not guilty comes about...what is the basis for the sanctions then.
To appease the that is conditioned by the media to take everything they say as truth and not do their own research as its to much work or they were told what they wanted to hear and that is the end of the story to them as it fits just perfect.
I will say, pretty much in the "real world," people still respect PSU, but when you get on fanatic message boards (especially clowns like pitt, md, rutgers) or read people who write comments on articles, it would seem like everyone wants PSU burned to the ground. Thankfully there are still people out there, like ramssuperbowl, who can think more than a 1st grade level and see the situation more than just black and white (which it isnt).
"Whoever’s trying to kill me isn’t getting the job done. But one day, I’m going to punch that f___r in the face."
regardless of who is charged and found guilty of covering up this gross set of circumstances there are more that i would hold accountable. How many people saw this dude in scenarios with kids that caused them to wonder? I mean in hindsight with all that went on you have to wonder how many people didn't have the stones to at least question certain situations.
Either way i feel for the fans and many of the players, escpecially current. Not matter what you say there will always be a film of yuck that lingers. I have tried to put myself in the shoes of PSU fans. It would be a hard pill to swallow going forward to something i invest so much of my heart and mind in. I don't blame anyone now, and i especially don't blame fans for loving their team. As a recruit i would have a hard time being around facilities not thinking of what went on. That is just me and far from an 18 year old kid with football talent.
I hope you guys are able to move forward and beyond from this, but i won't downplay it.
I know I don't feel that way. Out of the teams that I considered rivals in the B1G I would say I have the most respect for PSU out of any of them. I've always disliked Michigan and OSU but, never really had an issue with JoePa and PSU. This will blow over and if PSU can hold on to O'Brien they will be a power in conference again shortly. He's already proven he can recruit.
There is also a tie to PSU. I think Troy Vincent Sr and Roman Morris are some how related. They are business partners in a gym/NLF prep type school. Stephen Morris refers to Troy Vincent JR as his cousin. I an not sure if they are blood relatives. I remember that TVSr was raised by a family in Pa. TVJR also has Gilliam teammates at PSU.
Staff must have done things right. Like them or not, this staff can sell a product in the worst of times. They can develop you into a pretty significant player - ask McGloin, Robinson, Carter, James, Zwinak and several others. If our last staff worked to this extreme and were able to sell like this, we'd have a bunch more titles.
Absent the sanctions, last year's class would have been top 10 and this year's class would be as well. I'm not a class ranking guy. I think the star count of an athlete is subjective and somewhat a joke. Wisky and VPI are two programs notorious for developing the under the radar kid and turning them into studs. However, that is the talent we are talking about what PSU could have had. This staff is that effective when if comes to recruiting; making relationships and identifying the talent before everyone else does.
That is something people are forgetting. The tie to Vincent and Roman Morris. Morris' son played at PSU. PSU has also done very well for themselves recruiting in the state of Maryland. Larry Johnson is as effective as anyone down there.
Troy was impressed with what he saw regarding his intended major at PSU. PSU has one of the best programs in the country for his intended major. It played a part. You make it sound like PSU is academic equal to Louisville or Arizona State. It's not.
There's a reason PSU fans feel like they need to crawl around other teams' fans' message boards, they are part of a deeply rooted fan culture. Part of this--for many, I'd imagine--is the cult of Joe Paterno. And, part of that culture rears its head in the form of rioting in support of a man who held some responsibility for not stopping the sexual abuse of children. I think some PSU fans acknowledge this and are probably doing constructive outreach to build some good will toward Penn State as an institution. Others show up being somewhat arrogant and provocative on rival boards, giving off a sense of entitlement and privilege--which isn't dissimilar to the defense, through rioting or through conspiracy theories, of the idolized figurehead.
Congrats on building a solid 2104 class and congrats on getting a June verbal from TVJ. I'm looking forward to UW's matchup with you in November and to UW staying in TVJ's ear until February. Moreso, I truly hope you can do something, as a fanbase and institution, that meaningfully rebuilds your reputation--accurate and earner or not--from rabid defenders of a child sex abuse enabler to something less vile. The B1G deserves that, too.
that wasn't what i was saying. I was saying that UW is regarded high enough that academics will rarely if ever be a reason. Wasn't using it to trash PSU.
You misunderstood our support for Joe. I, personally, will always view Joe as a great man. The "rioting" was vastly overrated. It was 95% a peaceful show of protest. Joe Paterno was an indelible part of State College culture. We went to bed on Friday with him as one of the most respected coaches in the history of the sport, and by Wednesday he was being vilified by Main Stream media and other fanbases as someone who actively enabled a child rapist, and being treated worse than Sandusky, Curley, and Schultz - people who were actually charged with crimes. All with any kind of due process.
We were upset over the lack of due process, the mob baiting by ESPN and the media, and outrage in our Board of Trustees for putting all blame on Paterno and making him the scape goat.
There is ZERO relationship between the douchbags that troll other boards, and people who respect the legacy of Joe Paterno and still regard him as something special. Those that do show respect to his values, would be doing the exact opposite of what he would have wanted by trolling other boards, showing arrogance, etc.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
That's generally how I view the entire conference - though with one certain school I think they just shovel kids through classes to get grades. Not this one.
i wouldn't say i agree with that. though i would stack our conference against anyone there is a good level of hierarchy within it.
I'm saying that he chose psu because its the best overall fit for him. Balancing academics and football.
Don't take my word for it, vincent said that himself.
I am not saying the other schools aren't great institutions, just that troy saw penn state as the best overall.
This post was edited by Posas14 10 months ago
I generally view the ACC as the best academic BCS conference in the nation (obviously the Ivy League is the best). Though as we see with North Carolina (which is right there with Michigan as one of the best public universities in the country), high quality academic university does not necessarily translate into quality academics for athletes. But Georgia Tech, Duke, UNC, Wake Forest, Virginia are all power houses in academic terms. I think the Big 10 is right behind them.
I forgot about Nebraska by the way.
Ya, I don't think academics played a huge role. Wisconsin is actually ranked above PSU in most academic rankings, albeit both are good schools, as is most of the Big 10.
I think the reason he went to PSU is simple, location. He is only a 3-4 hour drive from home instead of a 12-14 hour drive. Hence family members can watch him play as well as friends.
Its also been reported he wasn't crazy about following his father and being in his shadow at UW and did express concern about that. Its also been reported that Troy has some friends at PSU and some connections that may have steered him to them.
Location has long been reported as a top priority for him and reportedly for his family. He wanted to stay close to home, and supposedly many in his family did as well.
As for JoePa and PSU, I have mixed feelings.
Personally I highly doubt JoePa actually purposefully covered it up. There is very little if any evidence that even hints he actually purposefully orchestrated a nasty coverup.
That said, JoePa was negligent and people do need to accept that. While he was not the only one complicit, it is a fact he had knowledge of the shower incident in 2001 and while I think he probably met the bare minimum to avoid a hypothetical criminal trial, he certainly did not do enough. Maybe he was overwhelmed and did not know what do and passed the buck, but whatever.
Its because of his negligence I did not have an issue with him being fired. Negligence is a fireable offense, and everyday people in America get fired for far less. Just recently Petrino was fired for an offense that while he did not break the law, he did break a moral code.
That said, I do not think JoePa is the evil devil some make him out to be. To me he was an old man who was negligent and made a mistake, albeit a very grave mistake. Not an evil coverup, but also not innocent.
As for the sanctions, I'm kinda torn. On one hand I feel for the players and Coach O'Brien, they did not do anything wrong. On the other hand I do think PSU is culpable and is deserving of punishment. However, the NCAA definitely should have done a full investigation and PSU should have gotten a hearing instead of a execution tribunal scrounged up by Emmert to hand out such a massive punishment.
I'm actually in almost complete agreement with this minus the sanctions part. I think if he orchestrated some crazy cover up, it was the worst cover-up possible. Telling 4 people, one with a phd in family sociology, is pretty much the worst way to cover something up. If McQueary had said "Joe told me not to tell anyone ever" then it would make it more plausible.
But he most certainly blew it and was negligent. I think he'd admit that first and foremost. He messed up morally by most standards even if he was fine legally. He deserved to be fired. No arguments here. PSU probably should have fired him in person instead of a phone call, but lack of formality is no crime.
I think the NCAA should have done something much different. I think diverting all profits to child abuse organizations was the most appropriate punishment. And having someone oversee changes in the AD would also be smart (instead they gave PSU an academic adviser, which makes no sense given the history of academic success within the AD). The AD was much too secretive generally, so there were more things that needed to be done.
Anyway, thanks guys for the respectful discussion, it's rare among the boards we usually see.
yeah the JoPa stuff aside I wonder how may people who have never been charged with covering up are having trouble sleeping at night. there had to be more than a few that never question or turned a blind eye. I suppose everyone get theirs in one way or another.
Either way this got off track. Good luck to TVJ wish him the best except for 1 saturday a year.
This post was edited by dustelli 10 months ago
I am a big believer that in this situation, Joes age hurt him big time. Not an excuse for him, but I think someone in their 40s or 50s would have reacted alot differently and been more aware of what they were being told or heard.
Not to mention, when questioned, a younger persons memory probably would have recalled things more clearly.
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